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Mary Rosenblum
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Hello all.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Welcome to our Tuesday
Lunchbox Forum
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Mary Rosenblum
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I hope you all on the east
coast are starting to dry out a bit.
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Mary Rosenblum
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What w inter you all have had!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I wanted to talk about the all
important process of submitting work. This is actually where most LR
students and novice writers in general, falter.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's easy to sit at home and
write and love your stuff, know that it's good. But then comes the nuts and
bolts of where do I send it, how do I find out the editor's name, it's not
in the writers market index, and what
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Mary Rosenblum
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if they reject me?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Those blues stop most writers.
I've been impressed with how many of the LR novel students I get tell me
that after they finished the course they never sent out any more work.
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barbiq
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So how do you start that first
querry letter?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Good question, barb. :-) Query
letters are used in nonfiction for magazine articles and nonfiction book
proposals
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Mary Rosenblum
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as well as most fiction
submissions to agents and editors these days.
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Mary Rosenblum
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First of all, you practice writing
query letters.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You need to hook your editor
or agent. You need to make that person ask to see the article or book.
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Mary Rosenblum
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For a book, you're simply
giving the editor the sense of your exciting and marvelous book.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Of course you don't do that by
TELLING the editor that it's marvelous and exciting. That's YOUR opinion
and you are hardly unbiased.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You do it by telling him/her
about the plot, using the same dramatic langauge that you find on book
jacket blurbs. Read them and practice.
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Mary Rosenblum
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For nonfiction articles, you
need to hook the editor with a strong first sentence, then let that editor
know what you are offering so that he/she can be sure his/her readers will
love it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You'll find articles on
writing nonfiction query letters in "Writing Craft: Nonfiction' on the
LR Website.
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barbiq
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Should the hook be like your
article hook?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yes. In fact, it's a good idea
to use the hook from the article in your query letter. Editors assume that
you're doing that.
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barbiq
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So your looking for maxium
impact mininum words?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Exactly. And information, too,
in the case of the nonfiction query. The editor needs to know your slant,
to be sure you are writing for HER readers and not readers in general.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I would write lots of query
letters before you ever send work out.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Just as with writing fiction
or articles, query letter writing is a skill. You won't be perfect at it
the first time you try it.
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illegible
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why do you suppose that is,
Mary?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Illegible was responding to my
comment about how few LR students continue to submit after they complete
the course.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, illeg, I think it's
probably two fold.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Some people find that they don'treally
want to be writers. :-) It's a lot of work, doesn't pay nearly as well as
plumbing, and you don't get much immediate gratification unless you love
the writing itself.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Other people, I suspect, just
don't want to risk the rejections.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You'll get 'em.
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Mary Rosenblum
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What you need to understand is
that they do not mean 'you're not a writer'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They simply mean 'I don't want
this one, thanks'.
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geezer
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I found I need massive revision!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Everybody needs massive
revision.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Nobody writes perfection on
the first pass.s
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barbiq
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So we shouldn't take rejections
personally at all.
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Mary Rosenblum
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No, never, barb.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They're not MEANT personally!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I get rejections. I've won
awards, get great critical reviews of my work, and have been shortlisted
for nearly every major award in the field.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I STILL get rejections. I just
send the story on to another market. Sooner or later they sell.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not every editor loves every
story I write, that's all.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you're writing nonfiction,
you'll get a lot of rejections to your queries at first.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Magazine editors are always on
the lookout for regular contributors. If your query is professional, they
probably won't take it unless it's just what they're looking for -- they
usually assign
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Mary Rosenblum
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pieces to their regular
contributors. But if they see several professional queries from you,
they'll either take a piece if it suits, or they might even ask you to
write something different.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They don't have time to mess
with amateurs, so they're a bit wary at first, but if you come across
professionally, you're suggesting articles that suit the magazine's slant,
they want you.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Try using /ask if your ask a
question bar won't let you send a long question.
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illegible
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that's sounds more like making
connections than about writing.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Making connections is part of
writing, just as selling your apples is part of growing apples, illeg.
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illegible
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I've gotten 12 rejections since
October. It's hard to know where to send them next...
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Mary Rosenblum
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Here's my suggestion for
getting work into the mail.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's what I did when I was
breaking in and it worked very well.
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Mary Rosenblum
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When you finish a story, sit
down with the market indexes and come up with a list of all possible
markets for it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Start with the best -- the
ones that pay the most -- and work down until you get to the 'fortheloveof'
mags -- that is, the ones that don't pay.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Put down the editor name and
submission address, any pertinent info. If you want to be really obsessive,
you can print out mailing labels for all your markets. I used to list at
least five markets for every story.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Send out your manuscript to
market number one, write down the date and postage (if you're going to tell
the IRS that you're a writer by profession) and get back to writing.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If that mss comes back, write
down the date, slip the mss into a new envelope, slap on the addresss
sticker, and send it out. Write down the date and postage.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you get all the way down
your list and nobody has bought it, file it. Maybe later you'll revise it,
maybe you'll send it to a contest. It is now a 'trunk story'. You've tried
all the markets you can think of.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Later on, a new market may
show up and this story will suit it perfectly. (I've sold many of those 'trunk
stories' that way).
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you're writing Nonfiction,
you do the same sort of thing. You gather your pool of information on
whatever topic you're researching. You have your quotes, any photos,
interviews, sources, etc.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now you come up with a list of
five magazines that might want an article about this stuff.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You write the first query
letter, slanting to THIS magazine, and send it off. Meanwhile, go ahead and
write query letters for all your other mags. If the slant is different
enough, you can send off the queries at the same time.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But not if you're using a
similar slant.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Keep track of postage and
check 'em off when they come back. Note any comments made by any editors.
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Mary Rosenblum
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THIS is how you break in.
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barbiq
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How do you send a resume when
you have never been published?
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Mary Rosenblum
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You don't.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Most of the mags will accept a
writing sample.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If your proposal is something
that big-circulation editor wants, she/he will buy it even though you don't
have clips.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If it's something he/she could
get from a regular contributor, you'll probably get a rejection. Pro NF
editors do not like amateurs much.
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Mary Rosenblum
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BUT...you can start selling
right away to small mags that don't sell a lot.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They can't pay the high pro
rates so they don't get the pro authors.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You write a good article for
them, they publish it, you have a clip.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Then you 'move up', querying
editors of larger magazines that pay better, using your clips.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Usually, once you have sold to
a NF editor, they want you to keep submitting and will start asking for
articles pretty quickly.
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barbiq
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How do you manage all the
paperwork
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Mary Rosenblum
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I have a log book that has
every submission I've ever sent out in it, with sent dates, reply dates,
and postage. It's kind of a cool 'track' of my professional life at this
point. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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You can use a spread sheet,
too.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But do keep records. Two reasons:
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Mary Rosenblum
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One: If you have ten
manuscripts circulating or ten queries in the mail, you can forget whom you
have sent what.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's embarassign to get a
terse note back telling you they already rejected this.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Two: If you're going to claim
as a writer, you must prove to the IRS that you are conducting yourself as
a professional rather than writing as a hobby.
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gonnabe
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You could have many articles in
the mail at once?
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Mary Rosenblum
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As long as they are not the
same slant, gonnabe.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If one of your articles on
lilacs, say, is written for novice gardeners and the other one is written
for plant fanciers who are very experienced
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Mary Rosenblum
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you can send those queries out
at the same time.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They're going to be very
different articles, even though both deal with lilacs.
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dim writer
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What are clips? The whole
article? Or part?
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Mary Rosenblum
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They're called clips because
they used to be clipped out of the paper or magazine, dim.
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Mary Rosenblum
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In fiction, you simply tell
the editor who published your story or book and when.
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Mary Rosenblum
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For NF, make a xerox copy of
the ariticles you've had published that are your best.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Or were published in the most
prestigious magazine.
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illegible
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does this method apply to
placing a novel manuscript with someone?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yep.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Here, you're going to either
make a list of ten agents who handle books in your genre
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Mary Rosenblum
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Or make a list of publishers
who accept direct queries.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Then do the same thing. Send
out the query, check it off, date it.
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heal
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Can you use newsletter articles
you have "published" as clip
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you don't have anything
else that was published for pay, heal, sure. The editor wants to know you
really CAN write well.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It'll serve as a writing
sample.
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barbiq
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How long should writing samples
be?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Long enough that the editor
can see you know how to write a good piece, barb. One thing you CAN do if
you don't have any clips
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Mary Rosenblum
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is to send the complete
article as the writing sample. Some editors will reject you for doing that,
others will read it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But if you're going to send in
a writing sample and you don't have published clips, you might as well send
in the complete article itself. Tell the editor that you did that.
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geezer
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If you are telling the editor of
your SS's should you list them separately or put them in the body of the
letter?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, if you've published a
LOT of stories, don't list them all, geeze! I've published more than sixty.
I don't list any of them.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Just mention where you have
been published -- use the biggest for pay market .
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Mary Rosenblum
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You can mention that you've
published 27 stories, including...and list your top two sales, the ones in
magazines the editor hopefully has heard of. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Do NOT list self published
books when you write to editors.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You will simply imply that
you're one of them. Yeah, some very good books are self published, but to
be honest, they are the exception that proves the rule.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So editors are pretty
prejudiced against that 'self published' claim. It's like saying, "I'm
a lousy writer'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And this is highly unfair to
the people who DO self publish good books.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And it's also a reason to
really try to get a paying publisher before you do the self publish route.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But that's another Forum.
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illegible
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does it help to make voodoo
dolls of the editors too? :<)
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Mary Rosenblum
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You know, one of the most
common beliefs is that there's a 'secret handshake' that lets you into the
club. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you know the right person,
do the right thing, the editor will pick YOU!
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gskearney
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I've noticed that a lot of
published writers once worked as readers going through the old slushpile.
Is there any way to get that kind of experience out in the sticks?
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Mary Rosenblum
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I wouldn't say a LOT Gary.
Some. Most of us did not. A lot of today's editors read slush -- they
started there and worked up.
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Mary Rosenblum
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About the only way to do that
is to make friends with an editor at a con.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They have to trust you as a
reader to know what theywant and don't want. I don't know any of the
SF/fantasy editors who use anything other than a very basic reader.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The manuscripts written in
yellow crayon on brown paper get automatically rejected. Everything else,
the editor looks at.
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heal
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writing for a particlar mag with
slant seems to stiffle me?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Then do something else, heal.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Write what you want and then
see if it suits a particular mag.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Remember there is a big
difference between writing what you want to write and writing what someone
wants to pay you to write. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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In both fiction and non.
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illegible
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Mary... these dolls have NOT
been cheap to make!
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Mary Rosenblum
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LOL, illeg!
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Mary Rosenblum
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You know, a lot of the reason
for that belief is that the editorial choices seem so obscure.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And in fiction they sort of
are because fiction is so subjective.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sheila at Asimov's really
disliked a story of mine. Stan at Analog, loved the same story.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It has now been collected in
four anthologies so far, including two Best of theYears. Sheila still can't
stand it. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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So there you are.
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Mary Rosenblum
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BUT...editors do watch out for
new talent.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you send story after story
to an editor and that editor sees improvement...
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Mary Rosenblum
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sooner or later he/she will
buy from you, or at least tell you what you need to improve on in order to
sell.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You don't realize it but you
are becoming an 'old friend' in a way.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Editors know the names of you
regular contributors long before they buy from you.
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illegible
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so much for all the yellow
crayons i bought, too!
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Mary Rosenblum
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yeah, you just got to stop
using that brown wrapping paper, illeg. The mail room hates it!
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heal
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any suggestions on the stiffling
aspect
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Mary Rosenblum
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I don' t know what to tell
you, heal. If you don't like doing it, don't do it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I don't write fiction for pay...that
is, I don't write stuff just because it will sell to a particular market.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I write the fiction I love and
then I try to sell it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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When I write NF I write
strictly for the market. It has been my rent payer.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I have no interest in writing
NF that someone doesn't want to pay me money for, thank you!
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Mary Rosenblum
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But I do know writers who
write for three or four publishers, writing books just for the money.
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redwagon
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Mary I just got a rejection on
my short fiction, I took the editor's advice and made changes, then
resubmitted--Im making the relationship!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Exellent, red. Yes, this is
how you ease your way in.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Editors tend to do this --
offer suggestions -- only when they've seen enough work to believe that
this writer is serious.
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illegible
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did you have to overcome that in
order to write to spec?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, yeah, if you're writing
to suit someone's instructions, then to a certain extent you do. But it
varies. I get anthology invites all the time. They always
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Mary Rosenblum
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include some kind of theme
requirement. I have a lot of fun coming up with a story that suits the
anthology theme. It's still my story.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But I would have a hard time
churning out true crime or category romance just to make a buck.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'd rather do NF than that.
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illegible
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I meant writing NF for a market,
for pay...
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Mary Rosenblum
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NF in the magazine market is
strictly you writing what the editor needs.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The book market is larger and
quite different.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'm talking magazine NF here.
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adulariamoon
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do you typically write a query
to a particular market w/ a slant and then write the article or the other
way around?
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Mary Rosenblum
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I always query first,
adularia. I'm not writing NF unless someone pays me for it. :-) That's how
all pros tend to do it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's not a productive use of
your time to write something that doesn't sell in NF. You have the research
info at hand and when you get the 'go ahead' you write it.
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janecj333
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When you write an anthology
story by invitation, is it always accepted?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Mine always have been. Now if
you are invited and the editor isn't happy with what you turn in they won't
take it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But they'll just ask you to
fix it or do another. Usually they invite you because they want your name.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But you still have to turn in
a good story. :-) Name alone isn't enough. Not even for really BIG names.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Ray Bradbury got rejected by
an anthology he was invited into a couple of years ago.
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redwagon
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How long are anthologies
supposed to be? Im putting one together and I dont know how long or short
to make the final product?
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Mary Rosenblum
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They're usually standard book lenght,
red. About 75000, -100,000 words.
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illegible
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kids these days...
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Mary Rosenblum
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Ah, I know the editor. She was
so apologetic. It just wasn't a good story. He wrote another one for her.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Oh yes...one fun way to get
stuff mailed.
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Mary Rosenblum
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A local author here who lives
down in Salem has 'mailing parties'. People come from all over, some
spend the night. Everybody brings all stories they have that are ready to
go out
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Mary Rosenblum
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and you critique, fix things,
swap market ideas, and get as many stories to the PO as you can by the
end of the weekend.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Everybody brings food and
drink and it's a fun two day party.
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redwagon
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what do you mean "invited
to" an anthology?
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Mary Rosenblum
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An editor sends me an email
and says 'I'm doing a such and such anthology, would you like to contribute
a story? I need this many words by this date, I'm paying this much'.
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illegible
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isn't Bradbury in his eighties?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Oh yes.
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copper
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Is it jumping the gun to query a
NF article if you only have
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Mary Rosenblum
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copper, I didn't get the other
half of yoru question.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But if you're asking about
querying if you have no published credits, yes, it's fine.
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Mary Rosenblum
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A LR student recently with NO
published work sold an article to Time Magazine. Talk about starting at the
top!
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Mary Rosenblum
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The editor wanted what he had
to offer.
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barbiq
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How do you find other writers in
your area?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Try advertising in places they
might go -- bookstores, the library.
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Mary Rosenblum
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We have a couple of local
writers groups that do that, and they advertise at local conferences, too.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, this has been a fun
conversation.
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janecj333
|
A mailing party sounds like fun.
Meet new people, eat guacamole...
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's a great time. I've missed
the last couple, plan to go to the next.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Remember -- getting the work
out there is as necessary as writing it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Otherwise you're justkeeping a
diary.
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copper
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one article published with that
same magazine?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Goodness, copper. If they've
already published one, I'd be hitting them with a new query every time I
thought of a good piece for them.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You want that editor to know
you're willing to work hard for him/her.
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illegible
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and VOODOO DOLLS!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Why not? If nothing else you
can start a shop offering voodoo dolls to writers!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Thanks for coming, all!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'll post the transcript in
the usual place.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Writing Craft: Forum
Transcripts.
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illegible
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made out of YELLOW CRAYONS!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'll post the transcript in
yellow crayon, how's that?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Have a good day folks. Go send
something out. Right now!!!
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