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Mary Rosenblum
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Hello all.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Welcome to our Tuesday
Lunchbox Forum. I hope you all had a good weekend!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Fall has definitely arrived
and I've really enjoyed reading all the great submissions for my most
recent 'Fall Colors' prompt.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You folks are improving. The
quality of each batch of prompt submissions is going up!
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Mary Rosenblum
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And some of those 250 word
pieces are actually complete stories. Impressive! So let's talk about
plotting.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If characters are the soul of
your story, the plot is the backbone.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Without it you have a
jellyfish.
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Mary Rosenblum
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A plot is simply the chain of
events that takes the readers from the first sentence to the last sentence.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Since the intention with most
fiction is to engage and entertain the readers, generally the plot takes
the form of a problem that the main character must overcome.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That may be an external
problem -- a detective needs to solve a murder, a woman needs to find her
missing child.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Or it may be an internal
problem: A young woman needs to get past an ugly childhood in order to be
able to successfully love, or a man has to get past his father's constant
censure in order to succeed in life.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The plot usually progresses as
a series of obstacles in the main character's path that he/she must
overcome in order to resolve that problem.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The character tries to
overcome them and is faced with yet another setback.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Some stories depend more
heavily on these external plot obstacles than others.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Mystery fiction, for example,
tends to depend on the external plot to carry the story -- the detective or
amateur sleuth must find the murderer.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Some mainstream fiction uses
the internal plot to carry the story and external obstacles will be few.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Our protagonist may struggle
with his feelings of inadequacy as he pursues his daily life.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But in a nutshell...a plot is
a problem that your main charcter strives to resolve. Usually they succeed,
sometimes they fail.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So, the question
becomes...what is the difference between a strong plot and a weak plot and
what does it matter?
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Mary Rosenblum
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A strong plot is a sequence of
events that present those obstacles clearly and the MC's struggle to
overcome them advances the story.
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Mary Rosenblum
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No, a strong plot is not
absolutely necessary.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I just finished a book, a
whodunnit, by author John Burdett; Bangkok Haunts.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The plot is pretty weak. The
search for the culprit is murky and is buried in a lot of narrative that
has little to do with the murder and the murderers.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The ending is not a clear
resolution of the initial problem .
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Mary Rosenblum
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On its own, the plot probably
wouldn't interest too many editors.
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Mary Rosenblum
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BUT...
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Mary Rosenblum
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The book works. It is carried
by the main character, the narrator, a Thai cop named Sonchai. His insights
and revelations about Thai culture and
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Mary Rosenblum
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the culture of prostitution in
Bangkok
is so strong and compelling that the plot is really incidental. Which is
fortunate for Mr. Burdett. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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So characters can trump plot,
but this is an unusual case with a very powerful character/setting
combination.
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onepozy
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At a seminar the instructor
stated that if your MC does not have other problems to solve as he solves
the main problem you are writing epistolic
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, I'm not sure what he
meant by epistolic, but generally, especially in the novel form, your MC is
dealing with both an external and internal plot.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If your character has no
internal conflict to resolve that character is going to seem flat to your
reader.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I see that a lot in novice
fiction. The MC deals with the plot but seems to have no personal issues.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So the story is very reactive.
The dragon attacks, the MC defends himself. The princess is locked up in
the tower so the MC has to climb it and save her.
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onepozy
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I think that is what he meant,
the writing will be flat to the reader
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Mary Rosenblum
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Exactly. It's like reading a
comic book, without the artwork.
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Mary Rosenblum
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This is the most common form
of fiction I see from novice writers. All action, all reaction, no personal
stakes. Flat.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Plot is really a double
dramatic arc. The external plot arc and the internal plot arc.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They converge at the end.
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Mary Rosenblum
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In the Burdett book, the
internal conflict is the haunting of the MC by the murdered woman's ghost
with the threat that it will destroy his marriage.
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sooz
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So in your example it would be
good if the MC had a fear of
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sooz
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heights?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Good example, sooz.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yes, our MC is afraid of
heights. He has the ability to walk away, not rescue her. So now the stakes
are much higher and more personal.
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Mary Rosenblum
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He's not simply reacting to
events. He, his personality, plays a large role now.
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Mary Rosenblum
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A powerful plot is one where
the internal conflict gives the MC more options when dealing with the
external conflict.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The MC can climb the tower and
save the princess if he can overcome his fear. Or maybe he'll bribe guard
to give him the key since he's scared. Or maybe he'll walk away and go
marry a different princess.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Strong plotting is a matter of
giving your characters many choices rather than one, so that they are not
simply doing the expected thing.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I see a lot of 'expected' in
novice fantasy fiction. The monster/evil wizard/dragon attacks. The MC
fights back. Another evil somethingorother attacks. The MC fights back. The
MC has to go to a certain point to do something/obtain something and it's
critical. So he goes.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Only that external 'will he
get the whatever in time and survive' plot carries that story.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's very thin.
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forest elf
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It's okay for the MC to have
weaknesses...
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's highly desirable for the
MC to have weaknesses.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Realism is what makes fiction compelling
even if you're writing about an unreal universe.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And how many perfect people do
YOU know?
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forest elf
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That way they grow or change
during the story ....
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Mary Rosenblum
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Exactly.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Character change is a part of
'story'. it's what separates 'story' from 'slice of life vignette'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And plotting includes working
out the arc of that character change.
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forest elf
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Even my cousin Legolas isn't
perfect ... LOL
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's part of Tolkien's
power. That none of his characters were perfect. Every one made mistakes
and messed up from time to time.
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patsyradc
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So the internal conflict should
be somehow "related" to the
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Mary Rosenblum
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To the external plot? Is that
what you wanted to add?
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patsyradc
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yes
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yes.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You'll have a stronger
dramatic arc over all if your internal and external conflicts and their
resolutions are related.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They'll support each other and
your whole will be greater than the sum of the parts.
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Mary Rosenblum
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A lot of the skill in plotting
is learning to complicate the problem sufficiently to keep the readers'
interest.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And of course, to keep the
readers from guessing halfway through the story how it will end.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I have to say that when
I"m reading a novel and think I see where the author is going, and
I"m not totally engaged by the characters, I'll look.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And if I'm right, I stop
reading.
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Mary Rosenblum
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When you're plotting, take the
time to play 'what if' games.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Generally, we'll see the
straightest path to the end when we first envision a story.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Here's the problem, this
happens, this happens, this happens, and then he wins.
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Mary Rosenblum
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(or loses).
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's fine. Put that aside
for a bit.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now play the what if game.
What if this happens instead of that? What if this doesn't happen, but then
something else happens?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Many of these what if
questions will lead you to dead ends.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You can't get there (your end)
from here.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But some side path make take a
turn here, another turn there, and suddenly you have an interesting and
unexpected route to your end...or maybe to a new end you hadn't thought of.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If the path seems obvious to
you, it's probably obvious to the readers, too.
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Mary Rosenblum
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One of the biggest mistakes
you can make, in my opinion, is to think up a plot and jump right into
writing it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Let it sit. Think about it for
awhile. Twist it. Bend it. Chop it into pieces and put it back together in
a new order.
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Mary Rosenblum
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See if something wonderful
pops out at you. If not, you still have the original plot.
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Mary Rosenblum
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When I first started writing,
I'd think up a plot and bam! get it all down on paper right now.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So then, when I found it a bit
weak, I'd do all that chopping, twisting, bending, while adding and
deleting thousands of words.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'm lazy. I do it in my head
now. Saves me paper and keyboard time.
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patsyradc
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Can/should dialogue be used to
push the plot along?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Dialogue is an integral part
of story momenumt, patsyradc.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's a powerful tool and while
it can be overused or used badly, it's a very strong technique of 'show,
don't tell'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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MUCH better than authorial
narrative intrusions!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Action, dialogue, and
description combine to create forward momentum and move your story along.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Learning that balance simply
takes practice.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Too much of any of those can
slow your story down.
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janecj333
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Maybe this is where writing by
the seat of the pants, with no plot in mind for the first few chapters, can
contribute to that intangible quality editors talk about...novelty.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It can, Jane. As long as the
final story makes sense to readers and creates the effect the author is
striving for.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Confusion is not novelty.
Although some novice writers mistake the two. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's really the same thing
as starting with your plot idea and twisting it. There you have a goal in
mind and you sort of explore an invisible maze until you find
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Mary Rosenblum
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a seemingly random path to
your goal.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Just sitting down and writing
simply explores that invisible maze until you find a goal.
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Mary Rosenblum
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In both cases, that final
seemingly-random path has to work for the readers or it's not successful.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Unless you're just writing for
yourself.
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Mary Rosenblum
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There's no right or wrong way
to do anything. If it works it works. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
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pook
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Mary, can I ask a questiona bout
the novel course?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sure, pook.
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pook
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I am having a hard time getting
my idea2 dwon from 2000 words to 350.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You've probably taken your
idea a lot farther than the course expects is all, pook.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The course asks for a very
general idea so that the instructor can suggest ways of handling that idea
to the student if necessary.
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pook
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so can I submit it that way?
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Mary Rosenblum
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You'll be better off to simply
reduce that idea to its basic, pook. It's good practice for you. Read your
2000 words of story summary and ask yourself 'what is this book about?'
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Mary Rosenblum
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Then answer that question in
250 words. That is a GREAT exercise and one I give workshop participants
all the time. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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I give myself ONE paragraph to
answer the question 'what is this book about' when I'm working on a novel.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If I can't do that, I'm not
ready to start working on the book. That leaves a HUGE amount of
creative space to play in
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Mary Rosenblum
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but I have my general goal in
mind.
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janecj333
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Well, remedying that confusion
is what revision is all about, and there's no substitute for it. But as I
search for a premise and plot, it's much easier as a piece grows longer to
say, " aha, that's what this story is all about," and then make
it more so with foreshadowing.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Oh yeah, that's a perfectly
fine way to do it. I used to do that all the time when I started out. I'd
realize about the time I finished the first draft just what story I was
actually telling!
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Mary Rosenblum
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And then I revised...and
revised...and revised....accordingly. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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I've simply shortcutted the
process now.
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Mary Rosenblum
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A lot of what I used to do on
the page, I now do in my head.
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Mary Rosenblum
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There's nothing wrong with
doing it on the page. As I said, I'm just lazy. :-)
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forest elf
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I have that happen. It's like
the story is real living thing
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Mary Rosenblum
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It is. And a lot of that is
that, as a novice, you're less conscious of the process. As you write, you
realize 'oh yeah, this is right' and go on from there.
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Mary Rosenblum
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As you get more experience and
start to see 'story' on multiple levels, you get better at finding that
'right' without sort of blundering into it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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We all blunder into it at
first.
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forest elf
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It grows. It changes. It does
the unexpected.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yep. And thats why I suggest
that before you start writing you try twisting and bending that plot.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Its' the kind of thing you can
also do through that 'this is where the story wants to go' revelation as
you write and revise, but you can also do some of that before you start.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You achieve the same end, but,
it may save you a few thousand words typed and deleted. :-)
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janecj333
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I don't mind blundering a bit...
:)
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Mary Rosenblum
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I hope not! The day I stop
blundering around I figure I'm done as a writer! LOL
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Mary Rosenblum
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The book I end up with is
rarely the one I thought I was writing when I first conceived it. :-)
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geezer
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How does one plot a milieu
story? Loosely?
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Mary Rosenblum
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What do you mean by a milieu
story, geeze? One with a dominant setting?
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geezer
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One where the world or setting
is the MC.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You still need an external and
internal plot, geeze, even with the setting is a dominant feature of the
story. Or you have a 'there and back again' story, which is pretty weak.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The Burdett book is
essentially a 'milieu story'. The Thai culture, location, and beliefs are
really the most powerful element of the book
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Mary Rosenblum
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but they are supported by the
MC's internal and external plot, which are integral to this particular
milieu.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They could not take place in New York or Sydney.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So in that sort of story, try
to make your external and internal conflicts integral to that universe.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Then you end up with a very
powerful balance.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The stories with the most
enduring power tend to be the ones where all three elements of story
balance: Setting/character/plot.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Think 'To Kill a Mockingbird'.
That particular plot needs that particular time and place and those
particular MCs in order to work.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, this has been a fun
discussion. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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However you create that plot,
try to take the less traveled route to your end
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Mary Rosenblum
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whether you find your way
there through the first draft or twist and bend that plot ahead of time
until you find your way through that invisible maze.
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janecj333
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Mary, can you describe the
difference between the mc's internal and external goals?
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Mary Rosenblum
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I gave some examples right ata
the start, Jane. Did you come in late?
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Mary Rosenblum
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You're simply going to have
different conflicts to resolve.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They're right at the start.
I'll post the transcript in the usual place:
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Mary Rosenblum
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Writing Craft: Forum
Transcripts.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I gave some examples of
internal conflicts to resolve and external conflicts to resolve. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Have a good week, all.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And check out the prompt
submissions in the newsletter.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'm really impressed with this
round of submissions. Gonna be hard to pick my 'first choice'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Thanks for coming all!
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's pouring out. Nice writing
weather!
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